2013 STI Pulling while under acceleration

Ok...Heres the thread...I purchased my 2013  STI from a local dealer about 3 weeks ago and didn't notice the issue while test driving. I live in S. Portland and noticed the issue going over the bridge. The car will pull "away" from the corner (turning left car pulls right/straight) while accelerating into the corner, does not matter if turning left or right it happens both ways and if you keep the wheel turned to correct for the pull the second you let off the gas to shift or slow down the car will correct itself and turn towards the way the wheels are turned, which can be pretty drastic if really getting on it and i am still in the break-in period, so haven't really gotten over 4K rpm beside a couple times on accident, so I suspect that hard accel into a corner will cause this to be near uncontrolable...

This phenomenon only happens under acceleration or is only noticable under accel and while turning...I openeded a ticket with the dealer and with SOA... Dealer is trying to get another STI to see if this is a common "charatcerisitc" of the car...

Which from what I can tell it is not and I drove my buddies STI and it did not do it... I have told SOA that if it comes down to it I want the regional rep to drive the vehicle with me to see what is going on and what i am experiencing... The service manager at the dealer openly told me that my STI is the most he has ever driven an STI and he did 6-8 miles, so I don't really have a lot of faith that he would be able to correctly diagnose the issue... He did state that the alignment was dead on and that visually everything looks ok with suspension components...

When I spoke to SOA on Friday they did say that the serv mgr did state that he felt and visually noticed the condition that was happening and that he wasn't sure if it was normal or not...

All the forums I have read have stated that it is either the tires or suspension components or worst case the differential... I have purchased the most accurate digital tire gauge to check tire pressures and they are dead on for factory specs...

I do want to say that my last thread on the suspension issue is unrelated and after driving my  STI was definitely just the squishy suspension and bushings on the WRX... 

Other than this issue the car is preety much perfect (as pefect as a subaru can be)...

Car... STOCK everything...

Sorry to those people that I pissed off for posting in the shout box.... pretty new to forums and stuff... just read.. . dont really post...

/thanks for any help... Ill update my posts as Subaru figures out this issue for me...

What do you have your dccd set on? Try manual mode and select it to opposite lock, or open, with one bar showing on your dash.

I've noticed that with mine, if on auto, you can feel it through the steering wheel when going through a tight corner.

Try that and get back to me if you would in this thread.

What kind of performance driving experience do you have?

I ask because the terms you will need to describe what's happending are very important.   If you are only familiar with "push", "plow", "tight", "loose", understeer and oversteer in a I-watch-NASCAR-and-they-talk-about-that-stuff-all-the-time sense, it is very different than talking to someone who has done a few HPDE's, done some ADSS's and autocrossed for a few years.

My first thought was actually something to do with the traction control.   But normal street driving conditions, you should not be coming anywere near to having that kick in.   So if its kicking in and trying to keep you "on the road" at low speeds, I would assume that it would cause some really wierd symptoms.    Do you know how to turn it off completely?   Obviously, where the DCCD is set will play into the traction control as well.

I always drive with traction off, and open center diff. I change those settings before I even put my seatbelt on

sounds like a classic case of power-on understeer to me. esp with a powerful awd car like an STI, getting on the power too much too early in a turn overwhelms the front tires' grip, so the car understeers -- aka, turns less than steering angle of front wheels would indicate. lifting off throttle does two things--lessens demands on front tires so they grip better, and also transfers weight to the outside two wheels -- both of which reduce understeer and make it "turn quicker."

would suggest coming into turns on the brakes in a straight line, get to speed that works for the corner, then stay steady on throttle until past apex of turn, then roll onto gas smoothly (not stabbing the gas) once car is pointing more or less in direction you want to go.

your use of term "pull" to describe what's happening is a bit confusing. generally, understeer is referred to as "push" cuz that's what the front wheels are doing, pushing straighter than you want them to based on steering angle.

your quote here tells me what's going on: "...if you keep the wheel turned to correct for the pull the second you let
off the gas to shift or slow down the car will correct itself and turn towards the way the wheels are turned, which can be pretty drastic if
really getting on it..."  An STI is a powerful and heavy car. you need to be a little gentle with all that power in the turns, because even tho it's fun to goose it  in a bend, doing so upsets balance of car and makes weird stuff happen.

no offense intended, but the service mgr at the dealership is not the guy to teach you how to drive at STI at the limit, or the guy to suss out handling issues at the limit. if you're wanting to drive the car to its full potential, you need training, period. High=performance driving involves a lot of techniques that are counter-intuitive, and trying to teach yourself this stuff on the street can involve a very expensive learning curve.

Ok... To Clarify the problem happens at both low and high speed at all DCCD settings Manual & Auto... It isn't understeer as it happens at 30 mphs to shift gears... The car is still in the break in period and I have not gone over 4,500rpm at all and only got there by accident maybe twice...

The issue occurs on a daily commute at posted speeds, under normal driving conditions, and not driving spirited at all! The feeling on the wheel is that the car wants to fight against you when you turn in on a corner and then once letting off the gas... again I am at 45mph coming across the S.Portland bridge and the car yaws back the direction you have the steering wheel pointed... The way it should be psuhing itself around the corner...

Its not traction control as there is no wheel slip and the brakes do not come on... I will try with traction off, but I am certain its not... I'm not an idiot when it comes to mechanics and engineering and understand the physics of how a vehicle "should" handle while under accel and thrust on all 4's...  

Also, I wasn't taking lessons on how to drive from the serv mgr, just saying that as a serv mgr of a very popular brand you would think they would intimately know every vehicle in a mfg's line-up... Including those little flaws or traits that mkae the car different.... We all klnow Suabru has a few! I would if I was in that position! We drove the vehicle spirited when I was showing him the issue to accentuate it and make it more pronounced... that's all... Otherwise, it's experienced at normal driving speeds and conditions, just not as pronounced...

I did get a call today saying they had recieved a 2013 STI to test drive and the condition is a normal "characteristic" of the car. I am headed there tomorrow to test drive it myself to see... I drove my buddies 2013 and it had nothing of the sort happen and it sounds like fellow STI owners do not have this issue, from the way i explain it anyway... Reading other forums people get this "characterisitc" after changing tires or doing something of that sort or have it from day one, but it seems that others do not, so that leads me to believe that it isn't a characterisitc, but an issue...

Does anyone else have this issue with their STI that can attest to this and that this is indeed a normal characterisitc of the vehicle?

Also.... Why would a vehicle be designed for "spirited driving" and have a "characteristic" that makes the car not go in the direction you are pointing the wheels... and possibly unsafe? My 2011 WRX didn't do it granted it didnt have the same power, but my 02 WRX didnt do it either and that had pretty close to the same power as a stock STI with the mods I had done...

I just really want to know if other STI owners have this issue and its normal.... If you have an STI and are in the Portland area I would be more than happy to meet up and let you drive or even ride in it as it is experiecned whether driving or riding to see what I am talking about... PM me if you would be willing to meet up...

Thanks to everyone that has commented!

P.S.

The car goes where you steer it, but when you let off the gas the actual turn angle that the wheel is pointed in is more than what was translated into the corner... That is until you let off the gas which is when it feels like the tires settle down and the car tracks where the tires are pointed... I know its not a skid/understeer feeling... I know that feeling well...

it's so fun trying to diagnose dynamic driving issues on the InteRwebs!

Haha... So my guess is that you feel I don't know how to drive? Either way... I still think its an issue of the vehicle not operator error... I promise you I can drive on/off road quite well... I grew up on an island that had no police and no bridge and 17 miles of dirt, pavement and forest driving.... But you could be right! Maybe I'm just a moron... However, I need someone to confirm it for sure...

No need to get defensive. nobody said you didn't know how to drive, but balancing an STI on the limit is a whole different ball game. your description of what's going on with the car kind of tells me that you haven't had formal high-performance driver training, that's all.

the quote, "...but when you let off the gas the actual turn angle that the wheel is
pointed in is more than what was translated into the corner... That is
until you let off the gas which is when it feels like the tires settle down and the car tracks where the tires are pointed... I know its not a skid/understeer feeling...... describes an understeer situation perfectly.

and you're playing in the big leagues with that 300+ hp car, which you have to admit is not the same as horsing around on island dirt roads.

that said, somebody who knows exactly what they're doing needs to suss out your car. if the local dealer crew can't handle the job, that's what zone reps are for.

sounds like normal operation to me, the trans has a limited slip in the front which will try to lock the front wheels together under power which will do exactly as you are describing  my legacy does something similar to this (sti driveline) and ive driven a few dozen sti's and i dont think what your experiencing is out of the ordinary.

Auto-hypochondria?

SoloWRX7, you are new to this forum so I'm sure you aren't aware that Dave, aka Nigel Prodrive, is an instructor at a rally school.   So when he says something, you can take it to the bank.

What you are describing, no matter what speed it happens at, is the classic, text book definition of understeer.   ALL cars are designed to be biased to understeer instead of oversteer.   It is not unsafe because there is one universal cure for it.

Slow down.

And that's what happens when the average driver encounters it, they lift off the throttle causing the car to cease understeering and are able to safely finish the turn.

Under normal, legal, safe conditions you should almost never encounter a situation that will cause your car to understeer.   If you do, that's a pretty big hint that you need to drive slower and that you are exceeding "the limit" for the current conditions and situation.

No worries...not trying to be wise... thanks for all the input. I'll keep updating and let you know if i can get rid of the issue.

Do you feel/hear the stability control kickin in when this happens?

not thati can tell... if you want id be more than happy to drive the thing...not sure you're anywhere around Portland... i'm going to the dealership tomorrow to drive anther sti that they said does the same thing... i just really want a veteran sti owner to drive it and tell me it's normal... that'll be the only way i think I'll be satisfied without having to spend a bunch of my own money... not that don't plan on it anyway...but i want it to be right to start with...and yes i am pretty critical of my vehicle dynamics as when driving fast it's best to know you have control of the vehicle... anyone that had a recent model sti that wants to try it out let me know...

feel free to come out to standish and id be happy to drive it

i have an 08 hatch sti. unfortunately i live in Bangor. But like mike said, with front and rear lsd's, the car will want to lock under acceleration. Manually opening the diff on your dccd switch will lessen the effect.

Like i said earlier, i turn off the traction and the auto center diff so it is all manual. Just the car and I, none of that computer assist bullshit

*only time i don't have it manual open is in the snow. Then i'll put it in manual lock with traction off.*

***Car is much more predictable that way, and you don't have to fight the computers***

I am moving this thread to the suspension forum.

It might help some people to know what issues you had with the 2011 WRX you had previously. Not to beat a dead horse here but what I read over in that thread was steering/suspension issues as well. 

My personal take is you are expecting more than what the car can/will provide. 

http://www.mainelysubarus.com/forums/topic/13624-2011-ride-issues/

Good luck with finding the problem! 

re-reading his original post, am now thinking much of the problem lies somewhere within the line "...when accelerating into corners..."  In a heavy 300-hp car, that's a textbook setup for big-time understeer. Come in too hot, car understeers; let off gas, it comes back on line, often with a pretty disconcerting lurch that you have to steer out of.

Drivers often contribute to this problem by applying too much steering angle, since if car is understeering, natural tendency is to dial in more steering...when what you should really do is ease off the gas (not chop throttle entirely, tho!) and actually UNWIND the steering a bit to lessen the overload on front tires. this is one of the big "lightbulb" moments at the driving school, when ppl discover that doing something that seems so wrong (unwinding steering when you want the car to TURN MORE, NOW!) actually works so right.