Oil circulation and P0011

Killerbumblebee

New member
Hey All,

     About a month ago my turbo failed on my Forester XT. Got a new turbo for it and the new one failed in about 5 miles right as it threw a P0011 code (low oil pressure to the AVCS system). My mechanic was under the impression the first time that the code was due to loss of oil fluid level (the old turbo blew up dumping tons of oil into the intake while I drove it the mile to get it off the road). The new turbo was sent out and is being fixed. 

In preparation for re-install, other than removal off all banjo bolt screens, does anyone else have experience with oil circulation problems? I want to ensure I don't have problems with oil circulation on the new turbo. I'm aware that there is a chance of engine damage with this code, and I'll deal with that if it's the case (as of now the oil removed was clear of particles and the engine itself seems to be running well) but I want to fix this problem and make sure the turbo system is in good shape. 

Does anyone have any other advice pertaining to oil circulation in turbo subarus? I've read about the screens in the system, but I want to ensure I've got good oil circulation and looking for imput. Thanks

Ben

 

RyanR

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At this point it sounds like you have almost no oil circulation. Pull the oil pan off and look for metal in the pan before you bother buying a new turbo. Pull the sump tube off and see if it's cracked/clogged/damaged.

If all of that looks ok, I would pull a valve cover and pull off a cam cap to see if the journals/cams are scored.

Those motors have almost a zero tolerance for oil starvation. If you have damage to bearing surfaces in thd motor, it's time for another longblock and anything that touches the oil system.

 

Killerbumblebee

New member
No matter what the condition of the engine I've got to get a new turbo, and as I've already paid for it that isn't relevant. We screened the oil coming out of the engine and found no particles at all, just oil. Additionally it was clearly evident when I started losing oil level as huge amounts of blue smoke came out the tailpipe 
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. The only code tripped was the P0011 ,not the other side, which would lead me to believe that oil starvation was localized to the left hand AVCS which also supplies the turbo with oil. My understanding is this line only serves these two systems and drains back into the engine through the passengers side head. 

I'm under the impression that there would be some level of particle mass in the oil if anything was present in the oil pan, which is why we checked this first. Whats the deal with the oil filler tube? 

I'm well aware a new long block might be needed. My plan is to check what I can prior to install of the new turbo, and ensure that the turbo is getting good oil pressure to avoid another turbo failure, and run the engine until A: it throws another check code, B: it sounds bad (bearing noise, camshaft noise, etc) or C: I get 200 miles on it without either of these happening, in which case I'll drain and screen the oil again, put fresh in, and run it (hopefully without issue). 

This car is stock and hasn't been beaten on (wife drove it), and was driven at 2k for about a mile after turbo failure. I'm going to fix what needs fixing, if it needs a new longblock then that's what it needs. What I want to avoid is replacing the turbo again while being able to diagnose engine condition, as once I've checked what I can check assuming nothing has been found I need to get it on the road to see engine condition. What I'm looking for is:

A: any other likely blockages in the oil system that might be lowering oil pressure.

B: any other diagnostics to run to check engine reliability (I like pulling the valve cover, and would like more information on the filler tube)

again thanks for the help:

Ben

 

UZNTHE4S

Member
Let me tell you a story. Hope you have a minute. 

I have a 2004 forester xt. My OE turbo, a TD04, went due to a PO011 and oil starvation. I dove in and started researching everything I could find on the subject. I spent over a month pounding the Google pavement, talking to local tuners, and tune shops all over the US. Here is my story.

First off I found the following forums very helpful. 

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=Info_SubaruOil

 The PDF's are helpful. 

http://turbolabofamerica.com/turbo-warranty/#sthash.fl3d6sH2.dpbs

This goes into some good detail on what happens with oil starvation cause knowing the cause wqill help you avoid all these problems.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1218459

NASIOC Turbo FAQ

http://www.mysubie.com/faq?id=19

Unabombers entire site in fact. Helped a lot!!

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/101927-turbo-oil-feed-avcs-line-replacement.html

A great write up of ALL three banjo bolts containing filters. the most important for the turbo, the on under the turbo on the main oil feed line going into the top of the CHRA!!

Now as for what happened to me. Here are the links to my post on here. 

http://www.mainelysubarus.com/forums/topic/15813-turbo-for-breakfast/

After i had purchased the new TMIC, FP Green, UP and down pipe, Gaskets and all the rest of the things that are involved with this type of repair, I was in around $2,700.  I had it tuned by Granite state, and they were great. John Is amazing and Id recommend him and his company to anyone. That said, I drove home and after 60 miles this horrible grinding sound emanated from the hood. I pulled her over and checked everything, revved the car, couldn't repeat it. I drove home at a limp. Next day I brought it to a subaru garage and they couldn't figure out the problem. I called GSD, John was there to talk me around what it might be. Turbo oil starvation or metal fragments left over from the old turbos bearings. 

See what I learned was that when a turbo goes due to oil starvation, small fragments of the old Journal or ball bearing sets pass into the oil supply. Those small pieces end up contaminating everything in the oiling system. The Oil cooler, the oil pan, the orifices through out the engine, everywhere. When I installed my new FP Green I had done a full oil change, but not a full flush, nor did I remove all off the oil lines and clean them out. So after the tune, while I was driving on the highway at 70 mph, all those particles became caught up inside my journal bearings and already partially clogged old oil lines. After about 60 miles or so, the main line to the turbo finally clogged up. There went my journal bearings and $1400 turbo, just like that. It only took a second for the main shaft in the turbo running 125k+ rpm at 70 mph for those bearings to spin. chewing up the insides of a nice new turbo. 

Now my car now sits comfortable in the hands of Mike at Meyagi motors who is, as we speak, installing a used blouch. He is also flushing my entire oil system, dropping my pan and cleaning that out, and changing out all of my oil lines with brand new braided lines. I am also installing a inline oil filter. 

Here is the link to jegs, I highly recommend it and so does many of the tuners I have talked to.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Earl%26%23039%3Bs/361/AT230304/10002/-1

And accompanying Union for the filter

http://www.jegs.com/i/Earl%26%23039%3Bs/361/915104/10002/-1

Here is a great read about turbo failure and flushing the oil as a post apocalyptic turbo failure

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-failure-wiki-173358.html

So as you see now, we both have had this unfortunate string of events happen to us. I highly recommend that you do the following as I have had to learn the hard way:

1. Replace the old oil lines with new braided lines.

2. Add the inline oil filter to the new lines.

3. Flush the oil. This involves dropping the pan and cleaning the pan of any debris. Clean the oil pick up. re install. Now I have heard of people flushing the oils using cheap oil and a friend. Not sure the proceedure you might want to ask someone who has done it. My car is in Mike's hands and he is flushing mine, again not sure his procedure. You can call him and ask,

4. Switch the oil type. I am using Rotella T6, but there are others, like Total Oil or Subaru syth. are good alternatives.

5. Have a oil pressure test done after all this.

6. Install an oil pressure gauge so you can monitor the oil and make sure everything is running as it should. 

7. change change change your oil. ALl of the particulates will not be completely out of you oil cooler, it is impossible to do. Some might suggest getting a new one, everyone I have talked to including Ron, the friend I made during this endevour who works for APS recommends just changing changing changing the oil regularly.

8. Pray. After all of this, you might still run into engine problems down the road and it is a crap shoot. With alittle luck on your side, all of the particles in the oil will be cleaned out and no damage will have come to the engine bearings. So pray.

If you have any questions, please shoot me a text. I can send you all the conversations I have been having with everyone about this issue. there is a lot of information out there and I found that being polite and asking the right questions can prove lucrative.

I hope this helps. And of anyone has anything to correct me on or chime in about please do, This is all just a learning experience for me. 

Best of luck.

 

RyanR

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I found that being polite and asking the right questions can prove lucrative.
Glad your issue is being resolved. Oil starvation and/or P0011 can be a nasty experience.

You did a good job outlining the issues and things to watch for in your post, and I could not have said it better myself.

Once the turbo bearing material is in the oil system, few folks get lucky and can just replace a turbo. Most end up needing extensive work. A major engineering and design failure by subaru in my book.

To the OP, taking your car to a reputable technician is highly advised. It will probably save you money on the end game, instead of potentially munching more turbos or finishing off the motor if it can be saved.

 

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