Should I rebuild or swap?

[Redline]

Not going to put up a poll, because I want to see what the reasoning behind the opinions are...

My 2.2L is leaking oil in large quantities (about 1 quart per week) and it's pretty embarrassing, as a business vehicle, to pull away from a stop light with a plume of blue smoke coming from under my hood (NOT OUT THE MUFFLER).

So something has to be done. Here are my 2 options, given my current situation:

Repair the 2.2L: purchase a near-complete set of seals and gaskets from Joel, and replace them all while the engine is out. Including timing belt.

Replace the 2.2L with a 2.5L: Source an engine, remove 2.2, make necessary modifications to 2.5, re-seal 2.5 (HG especially) and install

Option 1 would cost me about $190 + oil and new filter. The job would likely run from 9:00 - 6:00 on Oct. 20th. Since the gaskets and seals being replaced are all external, nothing major would be ripped apart. Chances of something going south are reduced because of this.

Option 2 is more complex. Engine should be about $500 + HG and other misc. seals + oil & filter, maybe a new ECU? Easily rack the bill up to $750 when all is said and done. Task time would vary, depending on the route I take. If I swap ECU's or not, things like that.

I'm confident in option 1, because it's straight mechanical work. Option 2 is hair-raising because I don't know what needs to be done. Ideally, I would want someone who has done this before with me leading me through it or assisting.

Thoughts? Go.

 

[RallyGuy24]

Here you go, scroll down a little.

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67996

And it even local!

 

[Redline]

turbo presents too many problems for the current situation. gotta keep this NA for now.

 

[4WRXter]

As you know Jeremy, all those turbo motors at ECS also need at least exhaust and cross member. You're going to be in close to $4000?? And then you don't really know about the engine condition. My opinion? If you're going to be into $8000-$10,000 (counting purchase of the OBS and what you have done so far) you should have kept the 2.5i. Or buy my RS

 

[Redline]

A 2.5 swap will only run me about $750 total. It's not terribly expensive.

A rebuild will cost me $200 including Oil and beer.

I will NOT be doing a turbo swap. Period. It's too complicated, and I've already got enough going on as it is. The only reason to consider putting in a 2.5L is increased performance. But with that, am I trading off reliability? I think so, personally. I wouldn't mind having a good stock engine, maybe putting on an intake and maybe an exhaust... but that's it.

Right now, including purchase price, paint job and the items I have put on the car, I'm $4k into it (INCL. paint) so another $250 is well within budget. Once the engine is solid and the interior is finished ($50 more to go on that) I could easily sell this car for $3.5-4.5k because of the extensive repair on it.

But I won't be selling it. It's my business vehicle, which is why I need something reliable. I need it to look good, overall, and run good. I don't intend on Rally-X, but a few Auto-X's here and there are within reach.

So I really don't see a need for a 2.5 personally...

 

[4WRXter]

It looks like you've answered your poll. I just thought I would throw out my views. And most of it was just thinking as I type. When it comes right down to it, I don't know nuttin'.

Sorry, rambling, bored

 

[Redline]

Pretty much, I have answered it. But there are 2 or 3 people who I respect very much that have suggested a 2.5 swap. I would like to hear the reasoning. If someone can prove the advantages of doing this, I'll listen. Otherwise, it's a repair.

 

[gearsoup]

I assume that I "may" be one of those you respect....

You have to pull the motor. You have to take the clutch off.

You have to do a timing belt. You need to do cam seals and all that good stuff.

IF you get a 2.5 motor, you will need to do HG's, maybe timing belt, since you're in there anyway.

You will not need a new ECU. You WILL need: Custom plug wires (I have a source, if you don't want to do that, you can re-wire the coilpack), an extra TB gasket (homemade, since it needs to be modified a little), heatshrink tubing, solder and soldering gun (You just need to re-wire the fuel injectors)

I assume you are OBD1...

No, you won't be trading reliability. My 2.5 lasted for over 15k miles before I sold it. And, I did a serious port and polish, port matching, cams, LW pulley, etc. And, I beat the piss out of it. Was it you that rode with me to MFR last year, or was it Christian? Anyway, you saw what she could do.

The ONE tradeoff: If you did a swap, and you didn't install a piggyback EM, you would have to run premium in the summer. That was the case with my swap, and it was because the 1.8 ecu was pulling a shitload of timing, at redline. If you stayed below 5k, you'd be all set.

 

[gearsoup]

The other downsides and things to consider:

What if the 2.5 needs all those same seals? Mine didn't...but you never know...

What if the swap takes longer than a day? Can it be left in someones garage?

I realize that I often promote swapping motors. I have to remember that not everyone is cut out to handle that responsibility and mechanical/technical stuff.

If you are questioning whether you can/should do it, perhaps you shouldn't... Or perhaps you should, so you can get the experience.

THE WORST THING ABOUT THIS JOB: Regardless of whether you swap or just repair, if the motor is fused to the transmission (oxidizing of the aluminum, along with rust on the 2 10mm pins that locate the motor to tranny), taking the motor out will be a PITA.

When I did the swap, a good 50% of my time was spent trying to get them apart. I ended up pulling the engine and tranny out still together. Yes, they will come out of the engine bay like that.....

Since you have recently had a clutch job on that, it shouldn't be an issue...

 

[RedForester08]

Jeremy I'll need my garage back when the snow starts flying. Ha Ha Ha Hey we got 2 days to get r done. (with the correct help)

 

[katnip]

2.2's are good strong engines. slap on some new gaskets where applicable, change the timing belt (unless you know it's been done),???change the water pump. slam it back in and hope that blue smoke from under the hood issue is resolved.

a swap is a neat idea, but stick with what you've got! a good strong motor!!!!!

my 2 pennies

kat

 

[RallyGuy24]

In all seriousness, I am in agreement with Kat. You know what you have for a motor, and what it needs. When you buy a used motor, you never know exactly what you are getting, and you may end up needing to replace more on the new motor than the one you have. If $$ or time wasn't an issue, then I'd say go for a swap, but given the actual situation, I'd say stick with what you've got and can rely on.

 

[Redline]

good feedback so far. keep em coming.

 

[Shorty]

Drop in a Cheby tree-fitty. Glass packs...

Run whatcha got. Seal it up and be done. Unless your 2.2L is junk, keep it. They come in all the time, oil running right out. We seal the thing back up and it's good to go.

Oh yeah, if your engine and tranny are stuck together, he's what you do:

Drive to dowel pin on the passenger side right through.

Wack the drivers side dowel once or twice to loosen it. Don't drive it in, it's in a blind hole and will bottom out.

The RH side will now be free, slide a prybar between engine and tranny and work it slowly apart. Piece-O-cake.

 

[RallyGuy24]

Oh yeah, if your engine and tranny are stuck together, he's what you do:

Drive to dowel pin on the passenger side right through.

Wack the drivers side dowel once or twice to loosen it. Don't drive it in, it's in a blind hole and will bottom out.

The RH side will now be free, slide a prybar between engine and tranny and work it slowly apart. Piece-O-cake.

It took me three hours of fighting and swearing to get my tranny and motor apart yesterday. If those little pins get messed up at all, it makes for a challenge. My tranny was out three months ago, the pin on the drivers side is 1/2 pushed in, and the one on the passengers side will never go back in... And I needed an air hammer to move them.