1.8 to 2.2 built swap

[Killerbumblebee]

alright, I just sold the BMW, and I'm planing on buying a cheap 1.8 impreza outback. I can't use the EJ25 for autocross purpuses (the 2.2L was in the outback sport so I can use it). These are my currant thoughts:

2.2L Built block and heads with oversized pistons, have the heads redone, and ported and polished.

1.8L Wiring and ECU with NA engine managment

EJ 25 Fuel injectors

this is to go with:

high flow headers, high flow cat, and STi cat back exaust

Fender well cold air intake

Does anyone see any problems or conserns that I should worry about? I realize it woun't be huge power numbers, but I'll be happy to see 170ish, and it'll fit into a sweet autocross class, thanks

-Ben

 

[gearsoup]

Didn't the Outback come out in '95-'96, with the 2.2? Before that they were just Impreza's.

The money you are going to put into the 2.2 may not end up being worth it....

Won't having a "built" block jump you up in class anyway? Take the hit and go EJ25, or go home... ;D

 

[gearsoup]

What about a turbo? What class would that bump you into? The 1.8's take boost very, very well. The right EM, and you could be seeing 12-16 psi.....

 

[Killerbumblebee]

lol, you guys are great, always tlaking people into more power: issues:

turbo = great idea. BUT then I'd be looking at huge power, and have to do the tranny and rear end if I didn't want to blow that up to

2.5 = another great idea, but 1. I already have acsess to a dirt cheap 2.2 of the same year as the car roughly, and street prepared allows you to build your engine to a certain level (they put restrictions on how much bigger you can make things...otherwise people would build like 5.0L 4 cylinder imprezas ;-)

the imprezas go into FSP, which is the lowest street prepared class, and has a pax of 8.23, as uposed to SM (2.5 or turbo) 8.65. so yes, it might cost me a few more hundred to put a built 2.2 in, but it'll be about at stock 2.5 power I'm thinking, and that'll have to do. Thanks for the thoughts though.

 

[nbourque]

Well the EJ25 makes 165 hp and the EJ22 makes 140ish?? So you're talking 25 more hp for a little extra money for the 2.5. I think you get a better deal with the 2.5

 

[Killerbumblebee]

of course you do! . If I wern't building it for an autocross car and a daily driver, I would do just that. actually, I'd take my 2.2 heads, and mate the 2.2 turbo block to them, and with some work set up a 2.2L turbo application BUT, this is how I get to my power goals and stay in the right autocross class, and I think it'll be decantly affordable sense I already have an engine for cheap for it.

 

[Killerbumblebee]

well, I got the car, 1994 impreza outback currantly 1.8 .

 

[ReZPunK]

all i can say is make sure you get the same OBD version of the motor. the harness plugs are not the same and can force you to do a lot of harness wiring customization.

 

[Tyler]

all i can say is make sure you get the same OBD version of the motor. the harness plugs are not the same and can force you to do a lot of harness wiring customization.

Yeah, and I'll be the first to tell you .. that's no walk in the park

 

[Killerbumblebee]

hmmmm, I was under the impression that they were very similare. I plan on using an older legasy 2.2 of the same year for that reason...anyone know whats similare/different in the wiring?

 

[seph]

Spin knows....lol...from what I remember from his swap...it was days to just get things figured out...

 

[redlinerally]

hmmmm, I was under the impression that they were very similare. I plan on using an older legasy 2.2 of the same year for that reason...anyone know whats similare/different in the wiring?

Ask EcksJay. He's a plethora of info on a NA/NA swap. He swapped a 2.5L into his 1.8L (different OBD) without actually going through the wiring mess. I don't quite know what went on with Spin's swap, so I won't venture a guess on that. But I will say that Seth is probably your best _local_ guy to talk to about this.

 

[preturbed]

Thanks for the info on that, TPH. I'll send a PM to him because I'ma gonna need some answers to a similar question.

 

[gearsoup]

spins issue was going OBD2 to OBD1. Backwards swap=PITA. Forward swap=piece of cake. This is only true if you don't mind having something that has little quirks. Like my 2.5 swap. I needed to get custom spark plug wires made. I used my 1.8 ignition coil, but because the heads are much different than the 1.8's, I couldn't use the 1.8 plug wires. There is a good writeup on NASIOC on how to rewire the 2.5 coil to take the 1.8 plug. I was trying to do this swap with ZERO wiring, and I almost succeded. After the cams and port and polish, I was putting out more HP and TQ than a certain well known Impreza rally car..... *cough* Nigel *cough*

As far as swapping the 1.8 for a 2.2....

Ignore the ones that are saying it's going to be a nightmare. They DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! There are countless of people on Nasioc and RS25 who have done just this. The closer you get to your model year, the better it is, but even still, a 2001 2.2 swap into your car is going to take all of 2 days. OMGWTFBBQ!!!!! More than half of that time is going to be spent actually taking the shit out and putting it back in.

Clutch is the same, ecu will run it just fine, same for the engine harness. Search and you shall find.......

 

[gearsoup]

all i can say is make sure you get the same OBD version of the motor. the harness plugs are not the same and can force you to do a lot of harness wiring customization.

That is very true. The harness plugs are WAAAAAYYYYY different.

But wait, you're saying, didn't he just say how easy a swap is?

1: Take old motor out.

2: Take intake manifold off of old motor

3: Take intake manifold off of new motor.

4: Take engine harness off of old motor

5: Take engine harness off of new motor.

6: Put the old engine harness onto new motor.

6a: There "may" be a few sensors that don't share the same type of connetors between the 2 motors. Cut and splice. On my 2.5 swap that

consisted of: Engine temp and fuel injectors. Clip the required connectors off of the new harness and replace the ones on the old harness. IIRC, the wire colors are the same for the injectors, but different for the temp sensors. The 2.5 had 1 temp sensor, but the 1.8 has 2. I don't quite recall what I did for that...

6b: Make sure that the crank trigger ring is the same between the motors. If the new motor came out of a 4EAT, and your car is a 5MT, you need to swap them over. Doing so involves doing a timing belt job. You should do it anyway. The trigger ring is the gear that sits right behind the main pulley. You'll know it when you see it.

6c: If your car as an EGR and the new motor does not, you can just plug the vacuum lines. Don't disconnect the sensor, you will get a CEL. Just plug it.

7: Put new intake back on new motor. Use new gaskets where applicable.

8: You may need to re-use your 1.8 throttle body. You may need to make a block off plate for it to function properly. When you have it apart, you will see what I mean.

9: Install new motor with old harness

10: ;D ;D ;D ;D New Power!

Now, this is a down and dirty "how-to". It's a "ghetto" swap. It runs fairly well, but you REALLY should get some sort of EM. The best route for that is an E-Manage Ultimate. There are many write up's on how to wire one into the 1.8 ECU. Check uniquemotorsports.com (if that site is still up), otherwise, hit up Subachad on NASIOC....

Sorry if I came across sounding like a prick in all of this. It just pisses me off when people spout crap they obviously know nothing about.....

 

[gearsoup]

turbo = great idea. BUT then I'd be looking at huge power, and have to do the tranny and rear end if I didn't want to blow that up to

The 1.8 with a stock WRX turbo is able to handle immense amounts of boost, in stock trim. Just cause it can, doen't mean you have to. Set the wastegate to open at 7-8 psi, ad you'll be at the HP level of an RS. Your tranny and diff wil hold up fine. Even at 14 psi, you're only looking at 200ish HP. (at the crank). My car was hitting 150 hp, and 158 tq, at the wheels. I did go through one transmission, but that's because I beat the piss out of it. Just don't try to force it into 1st gear when you're doing 30mph and you'll be fine ;D

Plus, the proper intercooler piping, you would be seeing boost around 2k rpm. Some people are seeing boost almost at idle...............

 

[preturbed]

What about a 2.2L? Can that handle a bolt-on WRX turbo setup? Obviously not an engine with a ton of mileage, but what about a low mileage, re-gasket/seal/etc engine? And can you use stock wiring, or what?

Inquiring minds like to know. Or if you point me in the right place...

 

[gearsoup]

Yes, a 2.2 can handle almost as much boost (10-12 psi). Even one with higher mileage (120-150k)

Yes you can use stock wiring. You WILL need an E-manage. There are a few such OBS's on RS25 and NASIOC.

If you go the turbo route, there is a lot more mechanical work to do:

Swap to a turbo crossmember (or notch and reweld your existing one)

Custom up and down pipe if you insist on using your stock x-member

welding a port onto your oil pan for the oil return line for the turbo

tapping into an oil galley on top of the block.

afro engineering a coolant feed and return line.

Like I said, there is a lot more work to do. If you are going to go turbo, take this last bit of advice: Get another motor. Freshen it up. Before you put it in and turbo it, turbo the old motor that you have. Work out the kinks (aka, blowing up the engine) fine tune everything and then swap to a newer block. Once you have this setup, a whole new world of possibilties opens up...

Such as: 1.8 block with JDM WRX heads (low CR=more boost)

2.2T shortblock with 2.2 NA heads

2.2T block with 2.5 SOHC heads (very low CR=even more boost, but a LOT of lag, plus it is a dog to drive offo of boost)

EJ25 with a low boost setup (5-7 psi MAX)

EJ25 SOHC heads with a USDM STI shortblock (good for an easy 300HP)

the list goes on......