Brakes question/problem.

[Runnah]

OK when I am rally-xing and messing around on snow and gravel I try to dial in my left foot braking to get the back to snap around. When I start tapping the brake, it starts out with great respopnse, but after a few times the pedal feel gets really stiff and the brakes feel like they stop working.

Is this the ABS kicking in?

Pedro mentioned putting in a ABS shutoff switch, is that too much for a daily driver that sees only several events a year?

 

[Rightseat]

ABS gives a distinct pulsing feel under your brake foot. There's also a sort of low-pitched grinding sound.

you can also pull fuse #8 to disable ABS if you are doing rally type driving.

one of the things about ppl discovering the feel of left-foot braking is that it feels so good, you want to do more more more...but it's a case if some is good more isn't necessarily betta. i wonder if the hard pedal you are feeling is due to you laying on the brakes so much that you're fading them right out. i've found that students who are getting into lfb sometimes stand on the brakes even on the straights, without realizing what they're doing.

could also be a brake booster issue, the booster is a large vac tank, and quuick spiirited repeated braking can bleed off the assist pressure. a slight vac leak in booster plumbing may have same effect.

DG

 

[Runnah]

ABS gives a distinct pulsing feel under your brake foot. There's also a sort of low-pitched grinding sound.

you can also pull fuse #8 to disable ABS if you are doing rally type driving.

one of the things about ppl discovering the feel of left-foot braking is that it feels so good, you want to do more more more...but it's a case if some is good more isn't necessarily betta. i wonder if the hard pedal you are feeling is due to you laying on the brakes so much that you're fading them right out. i've found that students who are getting into lfb sometimes stand on the brakes even on the straights, without realizing what they're doing.

could also be a brake booster issue, the booster is a large vac tank, and quuick spiirited repeated braking can bleed off the assist pressure. a slight vac leak in booster plumbing may have same effect.

DG

Maybe I am doing it wrong, but I've been tapping the brakes hard quickly to get the back end out, then I feather it if I am understeering too much.

Its during the feathering that the pedal gets hard almost to the point where it feels the same when you pump the brakes while the car is off.

Is this what prompts people to switch to a singly cylinder brake booster?

 

[Rightseat]

if you are working the brakes hard but not staying on the gas at the same time, (or at least not putting out some good revs near the time you do this,) you can easily bleed off your brake boost. happens all the time in the Team O golfs, whcih need pretty much constant throttle and LFB to make em do their thing. having a student run out of brake boost is a dead giveaway they are lifting off the gas too much.

a Scooby needs only a medium gentle poke on the brakes ONCE YOU HAVE TURNED IN to lfb the back end into dancing. hard jabs on-off-on-off just upset the car's balance and bleed off your boost pressure

lift (slightly in a Scooby, not all the way) ..turn in...LFB...countersteer...back on the gas.....repeat until you run out of room to play.

your comment about 'feathering the brakes if i'm understeering too much' makes me think you've got some timing issues to work out yet!

Basic lesson of the Traction Circle: you can't turn hard and brake hard at the same time! You will probably have better luck with a lighter touch on the brakes with that Big Left Foot.

DG

you might have some lingering bad habits that we need to beat out of you at one of the Team O winter Scooby club days. ;D

 

[Runnah]

if you are working the brakes hard but not staying on the gas at the same time, (or at least not putting out some good revs near the time you do this,) you can easily bleed off your brake boost. happens all the time in the Team O golfs, whcih need pretty much constant throttle and LFB to make em do their thing. having a student run out of brake boost is a dead giveaway they are lifting off the gas too much.

a Scooby needs only a medium gentle poke on the brakes ONCE YOU HAVE TURNED IN

 

[Rightseat]

ahem..Team O just scheduled Scooby club winter 1-day schools for Jan 7 and Jan 21

heh, sorry about the obviious setup Runnah...more info coming from Katnip...

DG

 

[redlinerally]

This post is rigged... ADVERTISING FOR TEAM O'S DAMMIT!

 

[Runnah]

ahem..Team O just scheduled Scooby club winter 1-day schools for Jan 7 and Jan 21

heh, sorry about the obviious setup Runnah...more info coming from Katnip...

DG

I want to, but haven't decided on winter driving, or if they have another one, rally-x lessons.

 

[ReZPunK]

i hope to go again next summer.

for the rallycross school and hopefully the rest of the program at some point.

we shall see.

 

[rallyXcramps]

Long road:

I recommend go to a few rallyXs and ask Allen, Chris B, Tim, Dave, to ride with you and give you pointers. Dave started me with left foot braking(in that truck at Union) and explained where, when, why, and started me on a good foundation. I'm so infrequent at rally-Xs that it took nearly a year for me to fully understand it and do it with some effectiveness. Then Allen M. did some runs with me and refined some of my noobness and accented what Dave had showed me.

Short road:

Team O'Neil, then apply it at as many rallyXs you can get to.

Either route is good.

 

[LastDitchRacing]

Thought I'd chime in on the stiff brake feel.

What's happening is you're emptying your brake booster and then the brakes are manual instead of power assist. There's only so much vacuum that can be stored in that nice black disc behind your master cylinder. Keep pushing the brake pedal and it goes away.

This is why most rallyists remove the brake booster and convert the brakes to manual. You really have to push hard to brake, but the pedal feel is consistent(except when you boil the brake fluid).

Cheers! John