The trouble with my GT

[Ian Black]

Alright first I want to start off by saying I'm new to these forums, and I'm excited to be a part of them. I apologize for the long story.

So the story goes, I purchased my 1997 Legacy GT wagon 5spd with a little over 200k about 2 years ago for $1500, didn't have a sticker, needed slight work (brakes, sway links), got the car stickered and was happier than a pig in mud for a good period of time. Was completely unaware of the HG problems in the Phase I EJ25's. A month or so ago, I noticed that my heat was very intermittent, it ended up getting really bad one night and I got worried. Next day everything was okay, about a week later while on my last delivery of the night (pizza), I noticed my temp gauge was pegged and I pulled over as soon as I could, smoke poured out from under the hood. I was not a happy camper. Got it towed home, and took a look at it. From what I could see it ended up being a hole in the radiator. Replaced the radiator with one from a junkyard in Freeport out of an auto Outback. Got it all hooked up and drover the car for a while, with seemingly no problems. About a week later it started overheating again. So I replaced the thermostat and flushed the system and all that jazz. Tried taking it for a sticker to find out the block was leaking pretty badly as well as the cam seals. After going home shouting obscenities, I had to decide whether or not to replace the 2.5 with a 2.2 or try to repair the HG on the 2.5. Ran into monetary issues that forced me to move away from where I was. Tried to drive the car to Bangor from Portland ( I know, super stupid idea) and got about 60 miles before I noticed that my fuel was dropping pretty quick, about a quarter tank in 20 miles and then the car overheated again. Ended up getting it towed to Bangor where it is sitting as we speak.

The car has about 220k on it right now. I'm assuming the car never had the HG replaced so I can chalk that up to a miracle it lasted that long. After all of the overheating incidents, I'm going to go ahead and assume it's probobly the better bet to replace it with the EJ22. From what I've heard the process is fairly easy. Is there anything I should look out for? Any tips? Anyone notice a difference in power or performance?

I'd really like to keep the car as I love the thing to death, and I'd like to modify it in the future. Can't go wrong with a nasty wagon ahaha.

 

[Matt]

you're gonna want to talk to chris....just went throught this process with his lgt....welcome to club though!!

 

[Mighty Subie]

I'm disappointed. I expected a LONG story! haha Welcome to the club and hopefully you are able to choose a letter of two evils for the fix. Keep us posted because I am sure that there is bound to be a couple people willing to lend a hand at some point.

 

[Ian Black]

Thanks a lot guys. It's my only vehicle and right now I'm jobless. I'm probably going to have to dump my guitar to pay for the repairs either way :[ It's a vicious cycle. No vehicle = no job, no job to pay for repairs for my vehicle etc, etc.

Aha I left out some small details cause I felt it was a bit too long as it was.

 

[Mighty Subie]

You obviously haven't read how I drone on... If I was up in that area, I would be willing to help out. But alas, I am not anywhere close.

 

[IBratmanI]

Drop a phase 1 2.2 in and be good to go. It will most likely be cheaper for you, and in the end be a more reliable motor. And just FYI, ALL 2.5's had head gasket issues, not just the phase 1. The just leak in a different way.

 

[Chris]

you're gonna want to talk to chris....just went throught this process with his lgt....welcome to club though!!

Hah, I'm being paged.

If you replace the head gaskets it'll spin a rod bearing in 5k miles. Ask me how I know.

Put a 2.2 in there, or a 2.5 that you know won't spin a rod bearing (basically that means rebuild one so it's fresh).

I may have provoked my 2.5 by putting 2.2 heads for high compression... But still, just swap it if you want it to run for a long time and be happy.

There's a good chance the head gaskets were done before, and the person who did them didn't do them correctly, or with correct parts.

I bought my car for $400 with bad headgaskets at about 225k miles, upon ripping it apart, I could tell the gaskets were not original.

And welcome to the forum!

Edit: you don't want to do headgaskets on a 2.5 DOHC anyway. I've done a few of them, they SUCK SPHERES. You have to pull the cams off the heads, not loose the damn buckets. After you get the new gasket in and the valvetrain back together, you have to get the timing belt on. Getting that on and off is a touchy process because if you mess up you'll bend valves.

 

[Ian Black]

*I messed up*

 

[Ian Black]

You obviously haven't read how I drone on... If I was up in that area, I would be willing to help out. But alas, I am not anywhere close.

I thank you for your offer kind sir. I'd be much obliged for some help with this, I'm pretty green to repairs ( I can do most things) but this will be my first engine swap.

Drop a phase 1 2.2 in and be good to go. It will most likely be cheaper for you, and in the end be a more reliable motor. And just FYI, ALL 2.5's had head gasket issues, not just the phase 1. The just leak in a different way.

I knew both phases leaked I just have the one with the worse leak aha. The one worth mentioning about more so. As far as a 2.2 goes when do the phase 1 years end? Is it '98 or '99?

Hah, I'm being paged.

If you replace the head gaskets it'll spin a rod bearing in 5k miles. Ask me how I know.

Put a 2.2 in there, or a 2.5 that you know won't spin a rod bearing (basically that means rebuild one so it's fresh).

I may have provoked my 2.5 by putting 2.2 heads for high compression... But still, just swap it if you want it to run for a long time and be happy.

There's a good chance the head gaskets were done before, and the person who did them didn't do them correctly, or with correct parts.

I bought my car for $400 with bad headgaskets at about 225k miles, upon ripping it apart, I could tell the gaskets were not original.

And welcome to the forum!

Edit: you don't want to do headgaskets on a 2.5 DOHC anyway. I've done a few of them, they SUCK SPHERES. You have to pull the cams off the heads, not loose the damn buckets. After you get the new gasket in and the valvetrain back together, you have to get the timing belt on. Getting that on and off is a touchy process because if you mess up you'll bend valves.

I assumed so after it's been overheated so many times. Plus my oil pan was all seepy, ( scraped it a few times) she needed a few more things I found out as well from the inspection I tried to get. Seems the previous owner who was a contractor who bought the car just to haul his crew around. Either the CEL bulb burned out or he managed to take it out because, I have a bad o2 sensor as well. After this engine ordeal I think the car will be able to take a sticker, as I've been driving it on a cut blue 2009/2010 sticker (I'm THAT good) ahaha.

 

[Chris]

I just found out the other day that it's a $133 fine for not having/having a run out inspection sticker. Not something you want to temp fate with.

Phase1 2.2 engines go from 90-98ish. You can tell because they have the funny shape valve covers, the plugs don't go through them.

If your car is an automatic you have EGR, you ant to get an engine with EGR, or it will throw a code you can't get rid of. Ask how I know...

95 automatic is the ideal engine, it's a 2.2 with dual port exhaust and EGR. If you get a later one it will have a single port header, but just swap the exhaust header. No big deal there (as long as you can find one (I have one)).

If you use a 90-94 most of them don't have egr, and you'll have to swap on a obd2 intake manifold.

 

[Ian Black]

I just found out the other day that it's a $133 fine for not having/having a run out inspection sticker. Not something you want to temp fate with.

Phase1 2.2 engines go from 90-98ish. You can tell because they have the funny shape valve covers, the plugs don't go through them.

If your car is an automatic you have EGR, you ant to get an engine with EGR, or it will throw a code you can't get rid of. Ask how I know...

95 automatic is the ideal engine, it's a 2.2 with dual port exhaust and EGR. If you get a later one it will have a single port header, but just swap the exhaust header. No big deal there (as long as you can find one (I have one)).

If you use a 90-94 most of them don't have egr, and you'll have to swap on a obd2 intake manifold.

I'm gonna assume you've been down that road huh? ;]

My LGT is a 97 with a 5 speed. I found someone willing to sell me a 1998 Legacy 2.2 with 183k parts car (bad auto tranny - no reverse) for $700 but I feel it might be pricey? I also cl'd a 2.2l if I'm not mistaken its somewhere around $250. Vegasjetta also mentioned that a junkyard in Freeport has a 2.2l ready to be pulled.

Is there a guide on here about doing the 2.5 to 2.2 swap?

Other problem is, I don't have a vehicle to transport said engine, or the tools necessary to pull said engine. :/

 

[Chris]

I'm gonna assume you've been down that road huh? ;]

My LGT is a 97 with a 5 speed. I found someone willing to sell me a 1998 Legacy 2.2 with 183k parts car (bad auto tranny - no reverse) for $700 but I feel it might be pricey? I also cl'd a 2.2l if I'm not mistaken its somewhere around $250. Vegasjetta also mentioned that a junkyard in Freeport has a 2.2l ready to be pulled.

Is there a guide on here about doing the 2.5 to 2.2 swap?

I'd give you hand if I was up there, which I'll be in the fall if you don't need a car till then... I've ripped enough of these apart I'm not really too worried about it.

Other problem is, I don't have a vehicle to transport said engine, or the tools necessary to pull said engine. :/

There might be a guide on ultimate subaru. I dunno, it's not much more different than a normal engine swap. No wiring or anything like that needing done.

I don't think that has EGR, which means you can use any 2.2. If it has egr, just crimp the egr tube and weld it.

I bought my latest 2.2 from Mike for $350. Has about 150k miles on it, and runs wonderfully.

 

[Ian Black]

So I guess the $700 isn't terrible cause I can sell the shell after for a few hundred or scrap it, and I'd be able to get it up here. Just not pull in anywhere I'd need to back out of.

I've got a family member with a truck so I could potentially have any engine hauled up here. Anyone got a good deal on a 2.2?

 

[Matt]

Paging Mikey. I know you've got at least 5

 

[Chris]

Paging Mikey. I know you've got at least 5

I think I took his second to last, actually.

 

[IBratmanI]

Yeah I don't think he has any good ones left

 

[Matt]

I know of one that needs hg. Not sure if it's still there

 

[Ian Black]

I'd really like to find a solid one, so I wouldn't have to do this all over again *fingers crossed* With 220k on the chassis, I feel that either way the 2.2 is going to outlive it.

I'm going to need to sell my 1995 Gibson SG to pay for the repairs. Or trade if someone is a musician?

Quick offtopic question as well, would an EJ22T fit with minor mods? Or could I turbo the 2.2? It's just for possible future reference. Highly doubt it will happen, probably way out of the realm of whats possible right now.

 

[Chris]

If you want a car with a turbo, sell yours and get one with a turbo.

It's a lot of work, and it'll never be worth what you have into a turbo swap. Do it if you love the car and it's your passion, it's that kind of swap.

Or if you have a lot of turbo parts laying around your garage.