Swap or Turboize.

[Runnah]

In the very distant future I want to upgrade the HP on teh RS.

I've read up about it on NASIOC and come to the conclusion that I have no idea.

Let me break it down.

Turboizing

Name/Price: FAT kit $3k-5k or ghetto kit

Gains: 60-100hp depending on kit.

Boost: 5-8 psi depending on kit.

Pros: They claim "weekend" instal times. Easy for a nOOb wrench spinner like me.

Cons: Not the best thing for a N/A engine. Longevity.

Full Engine Swap

Name/Price: JDM, USDM long, short, open/closed deck etc... from $1500-$8000

Gains: Varies

Boost: Varies

Pros:

Reliable

better performance.

Bragging rights

Cons: Someone posted that it took them 1 month to get the wiring harness sorted out!

More expensive.

Wicked hard to do. (for me)

So I'm not sure which route to go. I may not even bother and spend the $$ on other things. But for shits and giggles,

what do you guys think?

 

[Lawdawg]

You need to talk to the guys at LDR--I think they have done this and their website has some information,

 

[mikebike357]

I saw an STi engine on ebay...

 

[Runnah]

I saw an STi engine on ebay...

Me too, that got the gears grinding.

Yeah I figured a few folks had done it, like sick1.8t, LDR and Dave at F1.

And some people who know other who have.

 

[Rightseat]

turbo-izing a 2.5 is not a huge project, but it's still a big job. Lots of parts scavenging. You need a garage where car can be parked for a few to several days while you get things worked out. The 2.5RS that our team turboed ran great, and is still going AFAIK. Longevity is an issue specific to how hard each driver beats on the car, and how much care the car gets in the process. There's a pretty comjplete section on the job that lives at LDR website.

WRX motor swap is muchmuch more involved. huge wiring issues, even if you replace most of the existing harness. NOT for home mechanix. you must be intimately familiar with automotive wiring, circuit testing, etc etc. (or you WILL be when you're done!)

You can do some upgrades to the 2.5 that will give you decent hp--Link or other programmable ECU, injectors, etc. Aftermarket cams for 2.5 are a retrograde step compared to stockers, they only make a bit more hp way up rev band. You can't really bore or stroke the 2.5, Subaru has already maxed out the block.

If you want to race the RS, best way to gain hp is to shed weight -- interior strippage, alum hood, etc. basic rule of thumb: 100 lbs taken out of the car is like adding 10 hp. Next option is to lower the gearing--4.44 R&P gear in center diff and a 4.44 rear diff.

As you may have figured out by now, you have entered a VERY slippy slope here!

DG

 

[Runnah]

turbo-izing a 2.5 is not a huge project, but it's still a big job. Lots of parts scavenging. You need a garage where car can be parked for

 

[mikebike357]

I've considered the PowerPerfect6 from RalliTek but I just can't justify the $459 price tag. Yaah, I spent $525 on an Accessport for the WRX but that NEEDED engine management to help get rid of turbo lag... For me, that was worth $500. Anyone have any experience with NA engine management??

 

[gearsoup]

Problem with turboing a 2.5 is that historically, they are not known to take more than 6-7 psi of boost, with EM. Lots of bad things can happen....Also, I tend to think that NASIOC is full of naysayers that often impede any pioneering.

My recommendation? You go the el cheapo route. Delta Cams for $250, lightweight flywheel $400, a port and polish, free if you do it yourself, 2.5" exhaust. The people that do all that work to the 2.5's that are swapped in place of the 1.8's (such as myself) are often posting about 220 chp. Not bad.

Other option is to do a full on turbo swap.....

 

[soposube]

Check out the project car that sport compact car did. They turbo'd a 2.5rs. If you can't find the old articles floating around on the web. You can come check them out of my SCC library. However the late fees are steep!

 

[mikebike357]

SubieSport mag is doing a 2.5RS "Zero to Hero". I have a handful of back issues too if you're interested in reading them. I'll have to go back to see what kinda of EM they're using but I know they put some Cobb cams in it. Supposedly, when they're done, it'll run with a stock STi.

 

[Rightseat]

CK--talk to Dave at F1Dyno about options for heating up NA scoobs. He's a demon at it.

Of course you probly know what's coming next in the "how do I make my RS go fastAr?" line of questioning...(no doubt I wlll get slagged by Vinny for talking like a granny, but I'd rather talk like a granny than drive like one) but......#1 you gotta learn to drive better. (BTW, runnah, you are not being singled out here, this advice goes for everybody on STM who dreams of driving faster)

best cheapest and most useful way to gain speed is to tune up the old Butt Dyno. More accurately, get off the butt dyno and get out and learn to extract the maximum performance from the hardware you already DO own. Your new silver RS is all tuned and carefully set up to spank serious butt at rallyX, with a wallfull of trophies to back up the smack talk. So at least in the short term, getting the most from that car is entirely up to you. Until you can run a whole day of rallyx without screwing up even slightly or lifting even once, then you will gain more from this approach as opposed to spending $ on hardware.

There's no better way to learn good driving skills (and to earn genuine respect from your peers) than to become known as "the fast guy in the slow car." Once you get to that point, buy an STI and really go nutz. Meanwhile, every $100 you spend working your tail off at Team O (and you WILL work hard there) equals $1000 or much more spent on hardware.

J Cassidy and I have spent years and many many tens of thousands of $$$ learning this stuff the hard way. Even the very fastest car can be solidly beaten again and again by a better driver. We have put in our time learning to make slower cars go as fast as they possibly can before moving up to the next level.

Granny DG

 

[Runnah]

CK--talk to Dave at F1Dyno about options for heating up NA scoobs. He's a demon at it.

Of course you probly know what's coming next in the "how do I make my RS go fastAr?" line of questioning...(no doubt I wlll get slagged by Vinny for talking like a granny, but I'd rather talk like a granny than drive like one) but......#1 you gotta learn to drive better. (BTW, runnah, you are not being singled out here, this advice goes for everybody on STM who dreams of driving faster)

best cheapest and most useful way to gain speed is to tune up the old Butt Dyno. More accurately, get off the butt dyno and get out and learn to extract the maximum performance from the hardware you already DO own. Your new silver RS is all tuned and carefully set up to spank serious butt at rallyX, with a wallfull of trophies to back up the smack talk. So at least in the short term, getting the most from that car is entirely up to you. Until you can run a whole day of rallyx without screwing up even slightly or lifting even once, then you will gain more from this approach as opposed to spending $ on hardware.

There's no better way to learn good driving skills (and to earn genuine respect from your peers) than to become known as "the fast guy in the slow car." Once you get to that point, buy an STI and really go nutz. Meanwhile, every $100 you spend working your tail off at Team O (and you WILL work hard there) equals $1000 or much more spent on hardware.

J Cassidy and I have spent years and many many tens of thousands of $$$ learning this stuff the hard way. Even the very fastest car can be solidly beaten again and again by a better driver. We have put in our time learning to make slower cars go as fast as they possibly can before moving up to the next level.

Granny DG

Ok so what is O'neil's paying you

j/k

I get what you are saying and have already set the wheels in motion for a summer Rally Experience session.

Like I said this is all in the future. Since I am a mechanical nOOb, I am looking to see what people recommend and what has worked for other people.

There's no better way to learn good driving skills (and to earn genuine respect from your peers) than to become known as "the fast guy in the slow car."

Yikes, I hope a RS is never considered a slow car!

 

[HR radness]

I know I mentioned this before to you but.....

even though I have never done it, from what I've read over on Nabisco if you want reliable power gains that a swap will give you without the wiring nightmare that goes along with it, do a Right hand drive JDM swap from a STI-ra from the same year as your car. basically pull out all the guts out the front of the car from the engine back to the firewall including the dash, and install the entire front clip components from the JDM front clip.

pros: RHD is seriously cool, especially 280 horses of JDM factory built goodness. It is way easy to learn how to drive. I rented a RHD rental car with a 5 speed in ireland and it was no sweat after a day or so.

cons: Although it looks like the easiest route, it's still involved. You are going to need a garage for at least a week.

This would also involve getting rid of a very good drivetrain from that car, but the componets of said car could be easily sld to finance the venture

YOU CAN DOOO EEEEET!!!!!!!!!

 

[Runnah]

I know I mentioned this before to you but.....

even though I have never done it, from what I've read over on Nabisco if you want reliable power gains that a swap will give you without the wiring nightmare that goes along with it, do a Right hand drive JDM swap from a STI-ra from the same year as your car.

 

[Evan]

i'll read the thread and comment later, but, wanna buy this? comes with all the stuff i took off (but no ecu) its only a 3 digit price tag.

 

[Rightseat]

runnah quote: "...Yikes, I hope a RS is never considered a slow car!..."

It's slow compared to an STI, which the RS has spanked repeatedly in rallyXes. It's similar with our 2.5RS rally car, it's so much fun leaving WRXes, Evos and STIs in the dust.

Way better to be the "fast guy in a slow car" than the "slow dubbah in a fast car" !!!

DG

 

[rallyXcramps]

<----voice of reason

Buy a race car. Less than $2k for 4 cyl Oxford type caged ministock. You can race at the track during thursday thunder(oval), ice race it in the winter, and rally-x it inbetween.

You need to save for a house with a garage.

 

[Rightseat]

OK evan, I'll bite

what IS that motah?

DG

 

[katnip]

Dave is not being paid by Team O

. But he is sooooo right. Learn to drive it before you mod it.

If you bought the car to be fast at rallyx, I think Dave sold you a turn-key rig. My RS came fully modded and I have had to catch up to it. I still don't use it's full potential, Al prooves it everytime I let him race the car and he spanks me. But with me driving, I can beat some STI and wrx times (depending on the DRIVER). Yet I regularly get spanked by some vdubs and saabs (depending on the driver).

Learning to drive the car is THE most important part.

Kathy